Yes, I've met with the pastors

There have been a number of new comments over the past couple of days. I'll use separate blog entries to highlight them and respond to them. Here we go:

Anonymous said ...
First, I don't appreciate coming out from worship to find a flyer on my windshield. If you want to reach out to the LCDC community, find another way.

I am delighted to read your post.  I’m glad to see that we have gotten your attention.  I appreciate your thoughts and the passion you obviously have for the issues of our church family. We need and want what you have to offer. It is the reason for the campaign. 

The pastors have asked that I stop distributing flyers, and I will comply. Those of you who wish to broaden the discussion, please tell your friends about this blog.

As our blog readership expands, many of the discussions will take on an educational and discussion feel to them.  This involves both pro and con viewpoints. Assuming we get enough of our members involved, we may just get the open and full discussion we wish to have. If you have questions or comments to share privately, my email address is many.oneof@yahoo.com

Anonymous said:
This decision process was not done in haste or without anguish.
 It was forced by the ELCA finally adopting a stance that is currently popular in the secular world.

I would argue that ELCA is evolving, much the same as scriptural interpretation and our understanding of it has evolved over many years.

Popularity in the secular world, I would say, has no relevance to the ELCA decision.  I would say evolution and better understanding of the ways of our Lord and Savior does.

Anonymous said ...
It is counter to the teaching of scripture.

I would argue that no where in the 2,026 words attributed to our Lord and Savior does any reference to homosexual behavior appear.  It is mentioned by Moses to whom the Pentateuch is credited and by Paul in a pair of letters. These decisions do not run counter to MY interpretation of the scriptures, and this position is shared with many others.

Anonymous said ...
ELCA national meeting votes were taken, the ordination of gay pastors and marriage of two same sex partners was voted down repeatedly; the proponents continued their politicking until they got their way. During these years, any one that wished to speak against these resolutions was shunted off, shouted over or just not allowed to speak.

I would ask you to provide first-hand evidence of this statement, or at least cite your source so that we may all share in this knowledge.  It is extremely important to all of us to know this information. If you refer to the fact that a group of Christians would no longer tolerate discrimination, exclusion, prejudice and bigoted behavior, and kept up their faith-based passive protests and argument until such time enough voters were swayed to approve the proposals, then yes, I would agree with you.  You may find out the answers to these and many other questions at www.soulforce.org.


Anonymous said ...
The basis for LCDC is the Bible; we worship under its precepts.

I believe the basis for LCDC is the Living Word, Jesus Christ. We worship him. He and the Holy Spirit love us, guide us and help us grow in understanding of how God wishes us to carry out his new command, that we love one another.

Anonymous said ...
The ELCA's stand is in direct conflict with scripture...so LCDC has chosen to de-affiliate to stay true to God's word. I understand why. If we do not take scripture as God's word, and we as men cannot fully understand God's mind, then we have built our faith on shifting sands.

I would argue that ELCA’s stand is NOT in direct conflict with scripture.  I would argue that ELCA has a different interpretation of the scripture we each would cite. I would suggest that 10,000 congregations nationwide, with only 400 some intending to or having withdrawn, is a pretty strong argument in favor of the ELCA interpretation. Be that as it may, we each have to interpret what scripture tells us.

Anonymous said ...
Last, I read the comments about why the congregation was not surveyed, how you didn't get to comment or attend meetings, etc. This has been going on for several years; if you did not feel your voice was heard, did you take your time to meet with the pastors and discuss it with them? It's easy to get on a blog and comment; it's harder to stand for your beliefs.

Sir/Madam:  my efforts in this area started many years ago, and ramped up 3 years ago and even more so 1 year ago beginning  with a long letter (copy available upon request) and subsequent meeting with Pastor Garman. I also had audiences with Pastor Jeff and Pastor Carol.  I have sought information all over this country, from both lay and clerical people of all faiths. 

I have spoken with various ELCA synods around the country because the Grand Canyon Synod has refused my overtures to discuss this on three separate occasions. I have gathered over 20,000 pages of documentation, have conducted over 200 interviews with lay people; have conducted over 60 interviews with clerical people, and conducted two surveys regarding this and related issues.  I am authoring a book on the subject.  I have opened this blog, identified myself to the public; made myself accessible to anyone who wishes to discuss the issues. I continue my research to this moment, soliciting information from people such as you on this blog.

I would ask if you have stepped outside LCDC if even for a moment to determine what the answers may be to these and other questions of faith.  I would encourage you to do so.  It is an eye opening experience to be sure. I would suggest that I have done my homework and protest this issue on sound theological and philosophical logic.

Anonymous said ...
If you wish to stay in an ELCA church, there are many around the Phoenix area.
"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

I have been a family member of La Casa de Cristo since 1990.  I would prefer to stay here.  This decision, its dynamics, and the lack of complete and total dissemination of information have me very concerned. I would argue that this is the reason for this blog, and our conversation by blog this evening. My question is:  Do 3,500 members of our church family really want to leave ELCA, or do the 450 or so who showed up to vote at the last congregational meeting; or do the 9 persons who ultimately decided this course of action?  Who is driving this issue toward leaving ELCA and why are we not fully involved as a family in making this decision?   

I would ask you one question however, sir/madam:  Are you inviting me to leave La Casa because I don’t share your opinion of the interpretation of scripture?  I believe that I am serving the Lord in raising these and other questions.  I believe I am serving my church family by making you, me and others think about this issue rather than randomly rushing down a path that leads to ... where, precisely