Here's someone not so ready to leave the ELCA

This comment points out some of the issues I believe we need to discuss much more fully at La Casa.

Anonymous said ...
Scripture is interpreted by human beings. This is at the crux of the problem.

Indeed it is.  And we see through a mirror dimly.  There are many ways to interpret what scripture has to offer us.  That is the glory of scripture, and why personal interpretation is so important to us.

Anonymous said ...
There are many factors that influence the interpretation of scripture. This is why the scriptural interpretation on homosexuality has different sides. For example why do we have two creation stories? Why do some biblical scholars believe that Paul didn't write some of the books of the New Testament that the bible attributes to him?

I would point out that Anglican Bishop Desmond Tutu has increased his criticism of conservative attitudes to homosexuality within his own church, equating homophobia with racism, stating at a conference in Nairobi that he is "deeply disturbed that in the face of some of the most horrendous problems facing Africa, we concentrate on 'what do I do in bed with whom.'" In an interview with BBC Radio 4 on 18 November 2007, Tutu accused the church of being obsessed with homosexuality and declared: "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God."

Tutu has lent his name to the fight against homophobia in Africa and around the world. He stated at the launching of the book 'Sex, Love and Homophobia' that homophobia is a 'crime against humanity' and 'every bit as unjust' as apartheid. He added that "we struggled against apartheid in South Africa, supported by people the world over, because black people were being blamed and made to suffer for something we could do nothing about; our very skins...It is the same with sexual orientation. It is a given."

Anonymous said ...
Scripture was thought to be just as clear when it came to slavery, women and their value in society, and was used by the Lutheran church and its theologians to support a Nazi regime in Germany. And of course in all these instances the good Christians believed the bible supported their position. All of the people holding these positions believed their house served the lord. All of them believed they had good biblical support for their positions.

History tells us that humankind’s attempts to understand and interpret scripture have indeed led to support by some of causes and people that were later proven to be wrong.  This doesn’t mean that scripture is necessarily wrong; it does mean that man’s writings and man’s interpretation of these writings can be errant. We must remember one important fact:    JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD, AND THEREFORE THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH FOR WHICH WE SEARCH. It would be wise for us to turn to Him in our quest for knowledge

Anonymous said ...
One liners I don't believe really serve the broader issues being addressed here. The issue as I understand it here is some of the people writing want a fuller discussion of the scriptural and biblical issues around both La Casa deciding to leave and the ELCA choosing to approve the ordination of gay and lesbian ministers.

You hit the nail on the head sir/madam.  I want our home of 3,500 to each understand and be given the opportunity to fully understand and be able to vote intelligently on this question of faith.

Anonymous said ...
It’s not enough to simply say the Bible is clear about it. IT IS NOT.

I could not agree more!

Anonymous said ...
In that light then let’s have a full discussion of the biblical, historical, theological issues before we make a decision. What is the worst thing that could happen; we could all have a better understanding of the bible? Who could be against that?

Indeed!  Are we being left out of the discussion because we are not considered smart enough to render judgment based on our having full information and disclosure of all the viewpoints?  Again I raise the question of 9 representing 3,500?  How can this be allowed to continue, even unto leaving ELCA?  

Anonymous said ...
No member should be asked to leave La Casa because they would like a fuller discussion of the issues. That is decidedly Un-American and also very un-Lutheran.

No one is being asked to leave because of dissenting view.  The poster to whom you refer has offered an alternative for me specifically, one which I am not necessarily willing to take.  No member of our leadership has expressed an interest in my leaving the congregation. 

Anonymous said ...
I'm not completely sure but I believe Luther made his complaints from within the church. Oh well, maybe that's It; maybe we just aren't Lutheran anymore.  If La Casa leaves the ELCA as proposed, we will make a statement that is most un-Christian and that reflects poorly upon all of us.

I would agree.  At any rate he certainly posted his theses on somebody’s door now didn’t he?

Anonymous said ...
If we are to follow the teachings of Christ, the Christian religion must be inclusive. All are sinners, yet all are welcome.

And I would add, free to answer the call of our Savior to serve the church family.  

Anonymous said ...
By our proposed action we are proclaiming to the world that we welcome all people as brothers and sisters in Christ--but not if you were born gay or lesbian. No matter that you have the love of God in your heart.

You make two points.  “Born gay or lesbian”, which is now the prevalent direction of psychological and sociological thought among leading scholars, and La Casa sets itself up to be interpreted as a exclusionary and discriminatory church.  I for one would hate to see that be the case.  There is a lot of good being done here.

Anonymous said ...
No matter that you have been called by God to minister to his people. If you are gay or lesbian, don't apply at La Casa. We judge you unfit. God may have called you but we will not. Is this a message that we want to give? Is this the brand we want our Church to wear? Is this a decision that our Lord would second? Can we, as a congregation, live with this?

These are the questions that torment me.  I stated in a letter to Pastor Garman a year ago that I questioned what his legacy would be if he were to steer us down this road.  And my church home in my opinion, will be tainted as well.  I will not let that happen without putting up a fight. 

Please remember to attend the second congregational meeting and vote your conscience.  Yours in the service of Christ, Tom.