ELCA not alone in its stance

You can find this comment posted in its entirety here. I wanted to make some observations about it.

Anonymous said...
Nine people DID NOT decide. There have been six open forums on this issue. Congregational input was sought, and received, not only by the task force, but by the pastors. This has not been a closed or controlled process as you seem to suggest. And of course at least 85% or more of the congregation voted to leave.

A 10 person task force with one member not in attendance made the recommendation to leadership to begin the process to withdraw from ELCA.  I would argue that a decision of this magnitude requires much more than 6 forums put on by and moderated by proponents for the argument, with no representation of, written material for, or information websites provided by or for non-proponents of the idea.  One cannot make an informed decision based on only one side of any argument.  The process, I would argue has not been transparent.

Anonymous said...
You seem to wield conspiracy theories when this process has been open. It is not the leaders fault if only several hundred people show up at meetings. Maybe they support they leadership. Maybe they have more important things to do. Maybe to them this is a no brainer to leave as the ELCA has defied thousands of years of tradition.

I would say that tradition is fine as far as it goes, but the world is evolving, humankind is evolving, and the Bible and our ability to interpret it is evolving. Modern theological scholarship has increased dynamically the interpretations available to us, much as modern science took us from the buggy, to the Ford, to the airplane, and now to space.  Would you hold us back from progressing as a species for the sole purpose of observing tradition?  Or would you choose to grow, encompassing new ideas, new interpretations and revelations that the living breathing Bible has to offer.  To do so sir/madam, is simply humankind expressing our arrogance at the completeness of our own vast knowledge.

Anonymous said...
Finally, your biblical comments about ONLY Paul and Moses writing about this are false. Jesus said marriage was between a man and women in the Gospel of Matthew, did he not?

The seven passages of scripture represented in the post from which you draw this objection were all attributed to the writings of Moses and Paul. You are of course referring to the passage attributed to Jesus Christ in Matthew 19: 1-12. I would argue that there is no place in the 2026 words attributed to Christ where he addresses same sex relationships or marriage, because as a social phenomena it was neither visible, nor was it ever asked of Him. The relationships we speak of today are completely and totally different than relationships and sociology of the first century. I view Jesus Christ as the living Word of God, and therefore I turn to Him for clarity.  The issue simply is not addressed, or condemned by Jesus Christ.  Paul is another matter, as is Moses.  There are varied and many societal and cultural differences at the times they authored their works and their writings reflect their social conditioning A complete discussion of just these two  men and their literary efforts alone takes years to complete. For some in our society, it never ends.

Anonymous said...
I suppose if you got your way our single leaders and pastor could do whatever they wanted to do in terms of morality. It is a sad commentary when people buy into culture instead of being transformed by the bible. The ELCA has chosen to join only the Episcopalians in this , and look what is happening there. Maybe we should stick with the 99.5% of Christians who believe in what Jesus, Paul, and Moses said on this issue.

Our conversation has nothing to do with “my” way.  It has nothing to do with your way either.  It has to do with our ongoing daily struggle by each of us to interpret what Jesus is saying to us.  It is not about anything else.  The ELCA has joined not only the Episcopalian church, but conservative and  reform Judaism, the United Church of Christ as well as the Presbyterians in acknowledging certain relationships.  I would argue that these faiths are evolving and the revelation of the Holy Spirit has allowed them to see things yet again more clearly than in past days.  Just as sure as Luther evolved in his understanding of the scriptures and began the Reformation, so our faith today is evolving.  And in a very good way, may I add.