Questions and comments about the task force

This blog got two comments on Sept. 14 from the same person, a member of the task force that ultimately recommended that La Casa de Cristo should leave the ELCA.  The times of submission were 6:33 p.m. and 9:19 p.m., and you can see them in full by clicking here.

First, I’d like to restate that we will publish all comments.  This is the reason for this forum.  I said in the beginning that it does not matter whether you agree that La Casa should stay in the ELCA.  Now is the time to speak up, just as this person has done. 

Because of the issues raised, I have chosen to list this as a new post, rather than a direct response to the comment.  Again, the salient points are stated here.  Should any of you who also were on the committee wish to add to what this person has offered, please feel free to do so.  Yours in service to Christ, Tom.

Anonymous said...
I would say your comments are hearsay and border on breaking the eighth commandment.

This comment is apparently directed to the post dated Sept14, 1:05pm, therefore no response from me is necessary.

Anonymous said...
The team fully discussed staying, and did not make their recommendation lightly. Staying was fully discussed and was one of four options. I was there. Please don't pass along innuendos and rumors.

Again, this comment was directed at someone else, but it raises many questions in my mind, such as:

Are the minutes of these meetings available for me and other congregation members to study?  Are the members of the team identified anywhere?  How many members were there on the team? How were they chosen and by whom?  When were the meetings, and were the meeting times and places published so that anyone could attend? Was the membership polled; surveys taken; discussion held with the entire congregation prior to issuing their recommendations? Were subcommittees formed to deal with different ways of interpretation? How many ways of reading Scripture were discussed, and were “informed dissent” speakers consulted to present alternative ways of viewing the subject matter?  What were the four options that were discussed?  Were they offered in any kind of a poll or survey to the congregation for comment and discussion?
 
I am an active fellow member of OUR church family, sir/madam.  I do not pass innuendo or rumor.  I publish the questions/comments raised by others and respond with my own thoughts to them.  I started this blog because I am very concerned about the way this has been handled.  I do not possess the answers to even the basic information asked above, because not one member of the team chose to ask me my opinion or share information of any kind with me.  A number of members have addressed the same concerns.  If you can offer answers to the above questions, I will be more than happy to publish them on this forum.  I would welcome this information!

Anonymous said...
I don't expect you to post this. I left a post earlier and shared with you your view of the task force was completely off base. I was on it, we worked for months, we looked at all options.
Whatever your "friend" said it is simply not true, and there was one person on the task force of 10 who missed most the meetings and it was probably that person.

Your first statement has been asked and answered.  All comments will be posted as well as my responses.

What is disturbing about your second statement is that we are now being told that there were 10 members of a task force and that only nine of you participated in coming to a “recommendation.”

One member of the congregation added to this concern some time ago by saying:  “We couldn’t talk directly to members of the task force. If we wanted to add input or ask questions, we were told we had to direct our comments to Pastor Ruby, who would pass them along.”

Are you now saying that nine people, who I may or may not even know, represent me and 3,534 other members in coming  to a recommendation without membership polls or surveys, open discussion prior to the recommendations, or these 3,534 other members even hearing what the issues being discussed are/were.  The nine did this without consulting any of us?  And in order to communicate to the nine, members of the congregation were only able to approach the committee through one person, who I have the utmost respect for but who staunchly defends the move away from ELCA?

“Concerned” is too understated a word to express my position!  Does this tend to bother anyone else?

Anonymous said... 
You have not posted my post which showed another side, which leads me to believe you would prefer to spread misinformation.

This has been asked and answered.  I do not spread misinformation and do not prefer to do so.  I do post my thoughts and my responses to the thoughts and/or actions of others.

Anonymous said...
You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to spread untruths about fellow church members.

As are you entitled to yours.  Of what untruths and about which specific fellow church members are you referring?  It can’t be the committee/team/task force members because I for one do not know who they are.  My opinion was never asked, or an invitation to one of the meetings extended.

Information presented at the public meetings was definitely positioned in favoring of leaving.  I heard no opposition speakers, and I don’t mean those of us who asked questions. I mean fully briefed attendees to the national church meeting who fought so hard to get the decisions passed.  Therefore, it is unlikely, that since I do not know the members of this group, or when and where these meetings were held, that I would spread untruth. 

But it does continue to raise more and more questions for me, even as you defend your position. I will ask questions, and state my unwavering belief that this action is improper, poorly conceived, misrepresented to me specifically, and leads 3,500+ people down a path I consider to be the absolute opposite direction that Jesus Christ Himself gave us in John 13:34-35: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples."  As such, it is being demanded by nine that we as a congregation approve a course of action involving 3,500+ without full disclosure and discussion.

Anonymous said...
How Christian is that?

That I would raise serious questions regarding the spiritual direction of my church family is extremely Christian.  That nine would lead 3,500 in what I consider to be a wrong direction without disclosing all the facts, options and consulting us for input is what seems so un-Christian like to me.

Anonymous said...
You run around pointing your fingers at people and accuse them of not telling the whole story, or stacking recommendations when people were in tears and agonized over leaving.
I do not poke fingers at people! I ask questions, and if people do not feel justified in their actions, now that questions are being raised, then so be it. I do not know the people involved or whether they “were in tears and agonized over leaving.”  Perhaps the minutes of these meetings would indeed reflect this agony.  However, there is no evidence apparent to me at this time, that other than the nine of you, anyone else knows of these events.  Pardon me, but I need more information, and that is what I am asking for in this blog and specifically this entry.  And I would like this information shared with all 3,500 of us, if you please. And if it takes another year to inform 3,500 people so that an intelligent choice can be made, then so be it!

Anonymous said...
“but knew it was the right thing to do.”

WHO knew it was the right thing to do?  Do what specifically? How did this person or persons know without asking the congregation that it was the right or wrong thing to do?  I was not asked!  Neither were other members who have expressed their concerns to me.  This is the issue to which I address myself.  Who is making these decisions without full disclosure and consultation with the very church family they purport to represent?  

Anonymous said...
If you were a good person, you would change your comments about the task force. It is hurtful. And you are not being an open and honest person by doing such things.

Again, this comment was not directed at me, but I think it might be seen to apply to me as well.

I would say that in my case, you know nothing about me other than what you have read in my bio.  I have been a member of this church family since 1990.  That, and the freedom of Christianity and this country, give me the right to ask questions, voice my concerns and state my opinions.  This decision is not about you or me sir/madam.  It is about the spiritual path to be taken by 3,500 people, who I would argue have not been given a chance to be meaningfully involved in the decision-making process. If 3,500 fully informed members of this family wish to leave ELCA, then so be it.  However, just because nine of us made a recommendation without a full discussion with the rest of us, I am not now, nor will I ever be blindly led down a path to a destination I do not, at this present time, know anything about.

Whether I am good or not good is for God to judge. (And he judges me to be bad, I know. Thank God, literally, for sending His Son to redeem me!)

I ask you: How would you have me be more open and honest than I have been on this blog?  I have publicly stated my name, and offer freely my thoughts and convictions in a public forum.  I post each entry, and respond to it.

If it hurts to hear from someone who does not follow blindly to somewhere he does not wish to go, I am truly sorry that you feel that way. However, had I been asked my opinion at the very beginning, or had others been asked theirs; had we been allowed to be a part of the process, on a committee, offer input, then perhaps we would not have come to this crossroads.  I have studied the issues with the Bible and with the writings of many experts.  I have consulted clergy and lay people across this country to get a feel for what is truly going on. I have consulted other people who feel as I do and those who bitterly oppose me.  I ask again, what else would you have me do? 

To you sir/madam and to all the others who have and who will comment here, I want to thank you for the time it took you to voice your opinion.  I can tell, behind the rhetoric, there lies a very passionate and loving person, struggling to deal with his/her Christianity, and the future of our church family, just as are we all.  Thank you for your service to our family.  Yours in the service of Christ, Tom.